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Post by Boston Bruins GM on Dec 20, 2012 21:48:53 GMT -5
Just read through all of this, good points from both sides but regardless. Nothing will change. Without Yotes and Pens, this league dies.
At least this thread boosted activity!
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Post by Retired Ducks GM on Dec 20, 2012 21:55:04 GMT -5
Total bullshit that people here are 'scared' of the staff here, So I did all this because....? I was bored? Had nothing better to do? Come on now. noone has ever been banned here for that reason. You all keep talking about Kruze and 598679856479083456Crosby. That is 2. Mike has been banned from all kinds of jmcook sites for disagreeing with Cook. It's a ban war they both did for years. So that's 3. Noone then attacked him, people then said they disagree, and Justin got defensive Justin got defensive when staff started doing EXACTLY what 1 of the 4 GMs who I talked to said they would do - start re-directing the problem (blaming the active GMs who are stuck with shit teams and can;t acquire anyone good because the staff have them all). Then this was further compounded by the Red Admins (the ultimate HAVES - since once controls every single player in the game and the other controls 3 of the top 5 people in this league) say "We don't give a fuck about anyone else here, we like owning the best players in the league and are doing it our way. Don't like it, quit." The parallels to a dictator are completely valid, like it or not. And I think you misunderstand a bit here. I like both Quinn and Cook, generally speaking. What pisses me off is this whole "everyone can eat shit regardless of what they want - voting is meaningless" attitude, as well as the fact that Quinn threatening to quit makes half the league change their minds too. What is this, kindergarten? |
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Post by Retired Ducks GM on Dec 20, 2012 21:59:19 GMT -5
I am legitimately done now. Clearly doing the right thing (suggesting change when one thinks change is needed) is not what people are interested in here, since 4 people have been afraid to do what I just did; and as I said before, you can PLAINLY see why. The hostility towards any change or suggestion of change is remarkable. It always has been on this site. It's crazy.
That said, 3 people have voted Yes, I will assume that's 3 of the 4 I talked to; good enough for me. Did what I said I would do to help those people, now I am out of this mess.
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins GM on Dec 20, 2012 22:01:06 GMT -5
LOL. Well it is our site and it doesn't exist if I'm not simming. So I would say that gives me alittle power. But obviously your poll isn't going anywhere anyway. Maybe those inactive Gm's that you were talking about should either move on or suck it up. Majority seems to rule anyway. Move on if it bothers you that much. I don't plan on moving on to EA version 12.0 like Man. The Original is good enough.
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Post by New Jersey Devils GM on Dec 21, 2012 0:10:14 GMT -5
Yeah, definitely didn't read the whole thread. But, from what I gather.. an ex-GM wants to re-joint, but feels it's best to even the playing field.
Doing a restart based on this, and not the countless times some of us have requested, it would be a great piss off.
Just my quick opinion.
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Post by Tjhaskell - Retired Jets GM on Dec 21, 2012 0:23:36 GMT -5
/ End of Thread
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Post by New York Islanders GM on Dec 21, 2012 0:57:49 GMT -5
Total bullshit that people here are 'scared' of the staff here, So I did all this because....? I was bored? Had nothing better to do? Come on now. You all keep talking about Kruze and 598679856479083456Crosby. That is 2. Mike has been banned from all kinds of jmcook sites for disagreeing with Cook. It's a ban war they both did for years. So that's 3. Noone then attacked him, people then said they disagree, and Justin got defensive Justin got defensive when staff started doing EXACTLY what 1 of the 4 GMs who I talked to said they would do - start re-directing the problem (blaming the active GMs who are stuck with shit teams and can;t acquire anyone good because the staff have them all). Then this was further compounded by the Red Admins (the ultimate HAVES - since once controls every single player in the game and the other controls 3 of the top 5 people in this league) say "We don't give a fuck about anyone else here, we like owning the best players in the league and are doing it our way. Don't like it, quit." The parallels to a dictator are completely valid, like it or not. And I think you misunderstand a bit here. I like both Quinn and Cook, generally speaking. What pisses me off is this whole "everyone can eat shit regardless of what they want - voting is meaningless" attitude, as well as the fact that Quinn threatening to quit makes half the league change their minds too. What is this, kindergarten? Tbh, I don't know why you did this, because I wouldn't have done the same. I haven't mentioned any names, someone else did. And once again I disagree, I found a way to make Mike Comrie and Bill Guerin turn into what I have now, other teams had Gretzky, Mogilny, LaFleur, MacInnis, Phaneuf, Stamkos before me. I'd like to make it clear as well that I do respect you and I'm not looking for a fight nor is this a personal attack on any level, but I just disagree with your point here. |
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Post by Retired Ducks GM on Dec 21, 2012 1:11:01 GMT -5
Yeah, definitely didn't read the whole thread. But, from what I gather.. an ex-GM wants to re-joint, but feels it's best to even the playing field. Doing a restart based on this, and not the countless times some of us have requested, it would be a great piss off. Just my quick opinion. Not at all. It would be incredibly stupid, rude, and arrogant of me to walk on here and say, "I want to join, but I want a good team, so let's restart the whole damned league". My inquiring about the site is what got people telling me of the issues THEY had with it, and their cowardice to actually DO something about it. Again, I'm just a middle man. Unless some of those silent 4 want to start talking, I agree. |
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Post by 55587crosby - Retired SJ GM on Dec 21, 2012 1:13:29 GMT -5
"I Disagree"
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Post by Islesfan90 - Former Hawks GM on Dec 21, 2012 1:35:17 GMT -5
IMO the only way to create parity is a fantasy draft. This league has been around and has been very successful for a long time. I left like 3 years ago and just came back and it is as strong as ever. To go 20+ seasons and hit the "re-start" button IMO is very silly. I do see both sides but it would bother me if I was here from the beginning and built the team I wanted having taken up and used so much precious time of my life. Just keep going till he wheels fall off. See how far it can go. But don't get me wrong, I understand that poor teams feel like they can't get the top players and some of those players have been on the same team for a long time, which brings me back to my original point.
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Post by Mike - Former Wild GM on Dec 21, 2012 5:48:01 GMT -5
I think what it came down to the most is that certain people may have felt a bit slighted for having a difference of opinion - which is ok to have, but should maybe be respected a bit more.
Those people, yes because they lack backbones, but also because a lot of people just aren't really comfortable in being a voice when they are passionate about something, requested that Justin say something, and a poll was quite honestly the most appropriate and respectful way to do it.
Justin then got frustrated that certain members were doing exactly what the quiet members suggested would happen, which isn't fair. It's alright (and really fun) to debate, but name calling and threatening to quit isn't the way to do it. This thread could have been really interesting and may have even brought out an idea that could have taken the awesomeness of this site and made it even better - by listening to all member's opinions an ideas. OR it could have just been great to see everyone "civilly" say "yeah, it's an alright suggestion but maybe we should keep it as is and tweak the bad teams in a one-time shot anyways just to give them a one-last opportunity to be good, what they do from here on is their business" (as it always is).
What IS nice to see is that passionate members here LOVE the site for what it is now.
What IS NOT nice to see is that those same passionate members aren't recognizing that the quiet ones are ALSO passionate about this site and feel belittled to the point that they can't openly share their sentiment toward modifying a few things.
That's the ONLY reason this poll was made. It wasn't an attack, it was Justin sharing an opinion and further commenting to express those same opinions FOR the passionate members just like yourselves who disagreed with the direction of the site.
When the poll was posted, I knew that either way the site would still continue to thrive, but the idea had to be thrown out there one last time. It's a poll for a reason - those members felt they didn't get that opportunity to see what the league felt. A poll does that.
As this conversation went on, it became about a few comments here and there by specific "high-ranked members" who suggested they would quit if there was change, and maybe that swayed a few opinions, maybe not. But those four, been-here-a-long-time, passionate members who wanted this poll have NEVER threatened to quit this site because it would stay the same.
Do you see the difference?
EA is an excellent site. It has been for years. ManNHL has been a site that has just "tried" these new ideas BECAUSE OUR MEMBERS VOTED FOR IT.
We had our trial and error, this site prefered the consistency of the uni-direction of the site. Both ways are perfectly ok, and without a difference in how sim sites worked, they'd all be boring.
We have worked alongside this site for years, hell Cook's trying to do a surprise thing for this site specifically from what we're doing collectively right now. We love your site, and you guys should love ours too because it's awesome haha
But I'm just asking everyone to step back from any and all "arguments" on the site and consider them only as debates and that others might share a difference of opinion. Embrace it. It's for the good of the site because those people care enough to express something, and they aren't threatening to quit over it.
Peace and love.
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Post by New York Rangers GM on Dec 21, 2012 13:52:47 GMT -5
Well, I'm going to give my two cents here now that that barrage is over.
I know I've only been in this league for a year now, but I can honestly see both sides of this equation after 6 seasons here. It's very easy for teams that have the assets and have players that are 85+ to say that they don't want to change the way it is because our teams are set up pretty much how we want them. I should know. I'm one of them, and I voted for it to stay the same; having an amazing base of core players or if you're a top team every season, it makes very, very easy every off-season to select your keepers list. And to be perfectly honest, the only changes I've noticed in teams in the playoffs at the end each season, are usually teams 6-8 in both conferences, if any change at all.
However, on the other side of the coin, I can see it being not as easy. We have quite a few teams in the league that are in the basement every year. Whether it's because they're new and they've just acquired a team that was already struggling or they've tried to shake things up because the were losing, made what they thought was a good trade at the time and garnered the same results. They also don't have the assets to make any headway in the FA auctions either when the best player they can get out of auctions is an 82-83 player max, but it's usually for another 82-83 and they just keep spinning their wheels because their teams stay relatively the same season after season because they can't upgrade on their players effectively. I can totally see how it'd be frustrating for these teams.
Now, I know what your kinda thinking, "They can just upgrade through trades then." My short answer to that is: Not really. It's not that simple because even as a team that has some bigger players, I've even found it difficult to trade with most teams on the site. The main reasons I get for GMs for not trading are: That player or those players are not available, period or the biggest one of them all, and my personal favorite, "I don't wanna downgrade". Not much you can say to that.
For me personally, I spent the better part of 5 seasons shopping around guys like Henri Richard and Doug Harvey with no takers; and that was even to teams that were starving for a player over 85. The price was either too high, I got one of the answers above or I'd get a team that would come to me in the same situation I was at the time, with 85+ players to spare, and they'd offer a bunch of depth players that would likely be going into the draft. I finally got fed up with it and decided to do what everyone else with the players like I have was doing and was able to trade with Phoenix to just get players I wanted and basically screw trading after that, because it wasn't worth the time or the effort that I was trying to put in to facilitate these deals.
As for a solution or a suggestion, I don't think restarting the league is really an option at this point after 26 seasons. We've got a loyal group of GMs, most teams are filled, and the general consenus is that it's working. But, perhaps for those teams that are at the bottom every year, maybe a separate FA auction after the draft for team that finished like 13th-15th in each conference, are only eligible to bid and they're given the opportunity at snapping up a Legend or 2 and players that they normally wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting through the auctions during the regular season because they don't have the assets to bid against the heavyweights during the regular season. This, at the very least, would provide a little bit of parity and give these bottom teams a fighting chance. Just a thought.
Anyways, I've written enough here, but this was a long ass thread too and I felt I had something to contribute to this discussion. lol I hope it was atleast constructive.
Cheers.
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins GM on Dec 21, 2012 14:54:05 GMT -5
the biggest thing is to do what you can to get acouple 85's. You can turn those 85's into 87's in auctions. I usually build an 83 or 84 into an 87-88 every year. As soon as I get 8 of them, I trade acouple away to teams that are making an effort but don'tr have the time I have and then I do it all over again.
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Post by Mike - Former Wild GM on Dec 21, 2012 15:02:46 GMT -5
Yeah, that's true, but (and I say this only from the experience I had on this site) it might not be a bad idea to have an opportunity for auctions for teams out of the playoffs as Rangers suggested. I mean, having more teams do better, be more challenging, and giving them a chance to potentially lock up their best players to a degree, or at least having someone not worth trading (in a good way) would allow them to feel like they compete, and competition is never bad. But I'm also the kind of player that enjoys participating, rather than winning so much. If I had a player or two that played well together, it wouldn't really matter to me how the team did so much as it was about at least having something to be excited about.
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Post by The Admin Account on Dec 21, 2012 15:24:56 GMT -5
We used to have one legend booked off for the non-playoff teams only, stopped doing it for some reason. We will start doing that again this season.
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